Princess 35 modifications

[Norloch2]

Hello from Canada,

 

This is my first posts soI hope I'm posting in the right spot. Also, please excuse posting in English, but I'm not sure how to make the on-line translator work.

 

I recently purchased a Princess 35' flybridge with Volvo tamd41a diesels. These boats are not too common here in Canada so I am reaching across the Ocean to seek some input on issues and possible solutions.

 

We love the boat but the diesels smoke until well-warmed. I've had them mechanically inspected and tuned. Everything checks out ok and I'm told this is normal for this particular engine. To address the smoke issue, it has been suggested that I add engine pre-heaters. I do not pay for power at my slip so am thinking of adding 500watt silicon oil pan heaters to each boat. These would be run 24/7 while at the dock. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with these heaters or knows of a better way to help reduce smoke at start-up.

 

Also, the rumble of the diesels when at cruise is an issue for my wife and young son. I can't see a muffler of any kind in the straight-stock exhaust system so am thinking about adding a vetus mp90 to each engine (the outside diameter of my exhaust hose is 4" so I believe the inner diameter should be approximately 3.5" or 90mm). Again, I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with adding mufflers to this boat and can let me know what might work. I am, of course, worried about back pressure on the engines and about completing a proper install so that no water gets into the engines. As I said, this is a bone-stock exhaust system as it sits now.... The previous owner never had any issues, but never took steps to address the exhaust noise either.

 

Any help, advice, input or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance,

Evan

[SoBo]

Hello Norloch2 and welcom to this forum.

P35 is a nice classic, congratulate with new boat.

Yes it is experience with tis type of boat and engines inside this forum.

It might help to tell little more about year  boat and engines are built.

 

SoBo

[BOBO II]

Hey norloch 2 welcome to BP forum and Volvo Penta Smoke on the water club  . These machines will always smoking a part when they are cold . I have even an old princes 45 with TAMD 71B and I can tell you that it is quite normal with white smoke during startupp of engines until they are coming up in the right temerature . You say that someone recommended you to  install pre-heaters under the engine it ok. I think it easyer to do what i do

I mounted up engine heater with heater element inside and circulation pump for the cooling circuit of the engine that runs between the hot water tank and engine . You can start the heater element from your Phone with sending SMS to startup the heater 

about 45 minutes before starting your machines. with me , this has been very successful almost no smoke at startup

 

And I use this GSM modul to start the heater element

[REM]

Regarding mufflers Norlock2, Princess delivered mufflers for the 35 as an option. They used Helyard lift silensers, and they where quite effective, reducing exhaust noise substantially. I dont know the Vetus in-line type you are refering to, but they might be as effective? The space available in your boat will decide I think?

[REM]

Bergstad. Mener å huske at databladet for den varmeren du bruker ikke hadde løsninger for de motorvolumene vi har, altså 7 liter pluss. Mener også at den største av de var beregnet for kjølevannsvolum på 10-12 liter. Jeg har 34 liter på mine maskiner, og du har vel omlag det samme? Allikevel virker det som det funker bra hos deg? Hvor lang tid tar det å varme opp?

[Norloch2]

Wow - thanks for the warm welcome everyone!  I am so glad I was able to find this site!!  I was worried that I'd have to learn everything the 'hard way' with this new boat so am glad to meet/talk with other owners and share experiences. 

 

OK - so she's a 1989 Princess 35 flybridge with Volvo TAMD-41A in-board direct-drive diesels; roughly 1400 hours each. She also has a Mase 4KW diesel generator (Yanmar engine) with about 940 hours use.  The boat has a second fridge option in the cabin and the dinette option in the galley.  Oh - and it has the 'lovely' pink bathroom vanity in the head (what was Princess thinking??).  As for electronics, she has Interphase iscan V-90 forward looking sonar in both upper and lower, Standard Horizon GPS/plotter, Flow-scan meters, ComNav auto-pilot and Raymarine Radar.

 

 

Engine pre-heater:

Thanks for the idea Bergstad on what you've done to keep the Volvo engines warm.  It sounds as though pre-warming them is the key to keeping the smoke to a minimum.  That is good news and reinforces what I've been told elsewhere.  If anyone else has experience with preheating these engines, please let me know.  I've attached a link for the heaters I'm thinking of adding to the bottom of each oil pan for reference; each is 500w on our 120v AC system. https://www.wolverineheater.com/Model-40-p/40.htm

 

Muffler:

REM - great to make your acquaintance... it was some of your posts that first attracted me to the BP site.... some amazing work!  Thanks for the tip about the Halyard lift silencer.  I'll do a little more research on that unit and see how it compares.  The Vetus unit I'm thinking of adding (link attached) is not a lift muffler but an in-line unit.  What I'm most concerned about is not allowing water to come into the engine system.  As I said, the system is bone stock right now and water intrusion has newver (to my knowledge) been an issue.... I'd like to keep it that way.  http://www.vetusmarine.com/store/p/299-Plastic-Muffler-MP90.aspx

 

By the way, can anyone confirm that the exhaust hose on this unit is 90mm ID (approx. 100mm outer diamter)?  I tried to break into the boat on the weekend to measure it but the temperature in this part of Canada are still in the -20C-30C degree range and I'm afraid that I'll break/ruin something if I open it up now.  The 90mm measurement is from memory from last season (and my memory isn't as good as it used to be).

 

Other 'projects' that I'm contemplating for this season include:

 

- Hinged radar pedestal with spreader bar for GPS mounts, LED spot lights, etc.

- engine room camera

- reserve camera

- permanently mounted fuel polishing system with both in-flow and out-flow direction manifolds

- Wood flooring in galley/dinette

- Tecma Compass Toilet

- Espar forced air heater/ducting

- if the budget will allow - I plan on updating electronics in the upper helm (Garmin 721xs or 741xs plotter/sounder with Down Vu)

 

 

If anyone has any experience with any of these modifications on this boat, I'd love to hear about experiences, challenges, etc.  I'll do the same as I make the modifications to our 'new' boat.

 

Thanks again for the warm welcome!!  

 

Evan

Nor'Loch 2

[BOBO II]

Bergstad. Mener å huske at databladet for den varmeren du bruker ikke hadde løsninger for de motorvolumene vi har, altså 7 liter pluss. Mener også at den største av de var beregnet for kjølevannsvolum på 10-12 liter. Jeg har 34 liter på mine maskiner, og du har vel omlag det samme? Allikevel virker det som det funker bra hos deg? Hvor lang tid tar det å varme opp?

Det er helt riktig Rem de er ikke tilpasset volumet i våre motorer men jeg bruker ca 45 min til 1 time da er de gode og lunkne. Har til og med glemt og skru de av et p6arr ganger. Det fine med disse er at de kobler seg ut hvis det blr for varmt vann.

[SoBo]

It is a common ishue this starup smoke on 41a engine.  Volvo did some changes on the 41b and they smoke less.

It is a good solution to heat up the engines. The best would have been to heat up the inlet air when engines are cold.

But it is not a easy fix. 

Anyway this old ladies (Princess) are solid and strong made, and it is a big 35 feet boat.

We like pictures on this forum, and it would have been fun to see foto of her.

I have the cabriolet verson of the P35, called P36 riviera. It is a hobby and a ongoing prodject.: https://baatplassen.no/i/topic/97794-stell-og-oppgradering-av-en-gammel-dame-princess-riviera/

 

Here is a picture of them both.

 

[Norloch2]

They look great!  

 

I agree these boats are extremely-well built!  I only took possession of my Princess late last season so don't have many pictures to share yet... plus, I'm still learning the BP site and haven't yet figured out how to upload pictures....  Once I have it figured out I'll load some pics of projects I've completed over the winter months.

[BOBO II]

Hello again Norloch2. if you only heats sump declines all oil down to this , the oil will have a nice and thin flow and you get quickly up oil pressure of engines.
Only for information:     .if you heat the cooling water within the engine will bring up the operating temperature immediately. I've tried this heater you are referring to and there was not enough heat to bring the engine up to operating temperature fast enough only with this pre-heater and you will still have start up smoke in the beginning.

[Norloch2]

So I think I finally figured out how to paste a photo into a message on the forum, so here are a few.  As I mentioned yesterday, I only took possession of my Princess late last season so don't have many pictures of the boat, but here are some of a couple winter projects I've been working on.....

 

Here are a few photos of the pivoting radar arch with spreader bar.  Built this winter in my garage with the help of a friend that welds aluminum:

 

 

And one of the fuel polishing system with directional flow manifolds:

 

And one additional pic... It amazes me how similar our topography is....

 

 

Will add more as things progress......

[Hulda]

Smoke on the water, written by: IAN GILLAN, IAN PAICE, JON LORD, RITCHIE BLACKMORE, ROGER GLOVER
Performed by: Volvo

 

As we say here in Norway. Of course, not all agree :-)

 

Your fuel polishing system looks great. I am gathering parts to make someting like this myself. Hulda is a sailing boat equipped with at GM 6.2L NA. I have skipped the mechanical fuel pump and installed two off electrical plungers. Then I drop the valves, just using an electrical on/on switch to energise one or the other line. The plunger have an internal non return valve. Then I will be able to completely take one line appart for mainteneance with the motor still running on the other line.

 

A bit paranoia, but we had a very bad experience last year with dirty fuel. Hope I don't have too many misspellings, everything turns red here. Planning learning Norwegian? :-)

[Norloch2]

Your spelling is just fine.... I appreciate the input and support.  I'm finishing up the polisher this weekend and will post picture of finished product this weekend.  Everything I've read says don't give the Volvo diesels bad/watery fuel.  To purchase this sort of system would have been thousands.  I built it for about $500 Canadian.

[Kjetil1]

 

 

And one additional pic... It amazes me how similar our topography is....

 

 

I must agree. Canada must be the place that is most similar to Norway. And by the way, its great that Baatpassen.no is getting more and more international. I bet you will get lots of help and tips here concerning your wonderful Princess in the time to come...

[Norloch2]

Hey Everyone,

 

Here is a pic of the ready-to-be-installed fuel polishing system.....  Now just have to wait for the snow/ice to melt!

 

[Hulda]

That will work. Just one comment. Off-board, to link to offshore terms, two off blocks on each port. For instance a blind plug. Or as I have done onboard Hulda, two inch of hose, a piece of bar pushed into the hose. And tightened with a clip (hose clip or whatever the correct name is). Just in case.

[Norloch2]

Yes - good idea... Its is better to be safe than sorry!

[nordan family 27]

 

A Princess 388 with an exhaust modification leading the exhaust under water.

[SoBo]

 

 

Here are a few photos of the pivoting radar arch with spreader bar.  Built this winter in my garage with the help of a friend that welds aluminum:

 

 

Very nice radar arch Norlock2.  It`s always a good feeling to make things by youreself. 

I am going to do a simular job myself, but a will make the arch in fiberglass.

I guess this vetus mp90 muffler will make  a huge diffrence to the noise problem.

Our boat have original muffler made by fiberglass. Still a think it is to much noice/rumle.

I did a custom exhaust outlets this winter. Do not think it will help that much on the noise issue,

but i am hoping for some improvement. ( I made them cause this "splash" problem from the exhaust outlets)

 

[Norloch2]

Nordan family 27 - thanks for the post on exhaust modification to the PY 388. What set up do you have on the inside? Lift muffler, in-line muffler, check valve or other?

 

I ask as I'm curious about how you prevent back flow into the boat and/or the engines.

[Hulda]

Regardless, you will have to let air in as the motors cool down, or they will such water.

 

Another question, if I may, sitting here lookin at Google map. Great Slave Lake is quite big. But is it possible for you to og up Marian Lake and Shoti Lake? And at the other end Mackenzie River, can you og all the way to the Arctic sea? Up at Norman Wells, there are some strange constructions placed on gravel banks in on the river, do you know the purpose? Remember when I was a kid reading Jac London at others, names are comming back :-)

Redigert 13.Mars.2016 av Hulda (see edit history)

[Norloch2]

Hello again.

 

I was able to get into the boat this weekend (only -8 c).  The exhaust system is definitely 90 mm inner diameter.  I was also able to confirm that the exhaust elbow (at the engine) is approximately 23 cm above the waterline.  From there the hose moves exhaust to the stern and it dumps at approximately the waterline. So over the 1.4M length I have a drop of approx. 23 cm.  This is more than I though and I'm thinking that this should be enough to prevent any back-flow into the engine.  So I have a decision to make and would like some input from those on the forum.....

 

Do I go with a simple muffler (http://www.vetus.com/exhaust-systems/muffler/vetus-plastic-muffler-type-mp90.html)

 

OR 

 

Do I go with something that has check-valves built in (http://www.vetus.com/exhaust-systems/exhaust-systems-for-high-performance-craft/vetus-muffler-type-mv-90-mm-for-high-performance-craft.html)

 

Any input members might have would be appreciated.

 

 

Hulda - re your question about the lake..... Yes, Great Slave Lake is very large.  Measuring some 500 km long and about 220 km wide at sections. Given its size and our norther location, the waters can get rough... and are always very cold.  While it is possible to make your way up the Mackenzie River and to the Arctic coast, a number of challenges must be overcome.... The entire area is not that well charted and the silt-laden river has numerous sand-bars that shift from year to year.  In addition, there are minimal services/communities along the way and limited fuel-stops.  Assuming one is able to navigate these challenges and make their way to the Arctic Ocean, what does one do in a relatively small (40'-50') private vessel with limited fuel supply?  I would suspect the nearest fuel from the mouth of the Mackenzie is a LONG way off.

 

While commercial fishers make their way around the entire lake, most pleasure boaters seek-out the most easterly sections.  This area is home to world-class fishing, towering cliffs, some of the deepest fresh-water in the world and miles and miles of uninhabited shoreline.  The 'East Arm' as it is know is truly a magical place.  Check out our Club's Facebook page for photos.... https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=great%20slave%20yacht%20club

[Hulda]

Have been looking at the pictures, great place!

 

If your mooring is sheltered, the muffler without check valve will do the job. If in doubt, use the one with check valve.