English: Low-revolution semi-diesel motor

[Tk]

Hi everyone

 

With buying the Sabb GA I "infected" my friends (two of them are boatbuilders). They will help my to build my own ship.

 

 

For a second project (in three or four years) we would like to have a low revolution semi-diesel. Therefore we need any information about this engines.

 

Are this engines still available? What about spares? Does somebody know where we can buy such an engine (cheap )

 

What is the translation for this kind of engine in Norwegian?

 

 

Thank you in advance for help

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

[Fiks]

Hello Tobias!

 

The Norwegian terms for this type of engine are "Semi-dieselmotor" or "Glødehodemotor"

I belive that among other factories Sabb manufactured this type og engines until the beginning of the sixties. See http://www.sabb.no/CDA/viewfile.aspx?id=81 for a Norwegian manual and spare parts list covering type B, 4-5 HP, type C, 5-9 HP and type D, 6-12 HP. Sabb do not supply spares for these engines, but it migth be possible that some spares is still available from other sources. By the way, the last line in this manual says "Remember: If the engine runs well, leave it alone and do not attemt to make it run better by tampering with it."

 

I have tried the type B myself, it was fitted in a 19 ft. wooden boat that was owned by my brother. This boat was open and occasionally the engine crankcase was filled with water due to heavy rainfall. The only preparation requred after water filling was to drain the water from the cranckcase and turn the handle on the lubricator a few times to provide som additional oil in the main- and big end bearing before startup.

 

I think it will be bit difficult to purchase a secondhand engine of this type, because there are few left that are in working order and the remaining engines are popular among collectors. But anyway try the marketplace http://www.finn.no/finn/boat/motor/browse1?WT.svl=leftmenu and type Sabb as searchword in the box besides "Søk" because occasionally semidiesel engines are posted for sale here.

 

Regards

Fiks

[SveinHa]

Here is a perfect startup of a 50hp Brunvoll semidiesel:

Similar procedure for all semidiesels but the smaller semidiesels (less than 15hp?) usually don't use pressurized air for starting.

[Fiks]

It is possible to find a video on youtube of SABB type D semi diesel running.

Edited: See next post from Ingar.

 

Regards

Fiks

Redigert 6.Januar.2008 av Fiks (see edit history)

[SveinHa]

Sabb 6-12 hp running

[Tk]

Thank you for your answers so far. I saw the videos on "youtube". I would be happy if I can find a sabb semi diesel some time. I even would give my Sabb GA for a good one.

The Brunvoll is a dream of course, but mayby a little bit too big, although I would like to have a enigne which has to be started with pressurized air, like the old engine we had on my parents boat.

 

What about other brands. What can also be recommended?

 

Greetings.

 

Tobias

Redigert 6.Januar.2008 av Tk (see edit history)

[Fiks]

Some more information and video clips about semidiesel engines can be found on this Norwegian web page: http://www.semidiesel.no/ See links under "Norske Motorer" Also two Sabb Type C semi diesels for sale, see "Annet aktuelt", "Forum / børs", and the last entry there.

 

Regards

Fiks

[Brutus]

Nice site with soundclips of the different engines. The site also contains some swedish engines (Svenske motorer) (hot-bulb type).

And a Wichmann wich now is under the Wärtsilä brand i think?

 

Semidiesels

 

Ps. The site is a bit outdated, some of the links doesnt work.

[Tk]

Hi

I checked the pages out, nice material thank you. The semi diesels were sold already.

 

These semi diesels always had to be preheated before starting?

 

What about other methods, the engine of my parents had to be started with press. air or it had to be "shouted on" with an exploding celluloid film.

 

Regards,

 

Tobias

[SveinHa]

These semi diesels always had to be preheated before starting?

Yes, thats the "semi" thing A "Full" diesel generates enought heat to ignite the fuel from compression only but semidiesel needs additional heating. There are several pre-heating methods but the most common is to heat a glowelement by use of a propane or diesel burner or to install an electrical glow-spiral. The electrical preheater is a lot faster but may not live too long...

[SveinHa]

Here is a perfect startup of a 50hp Brunvoll semidiesel:

Startprocedure step by step:

Before this videoclip, there have to be done this:

1. Manual operation of the lubesystem (square brass thing shown later in the videoclip) to make sure all lubepoints have some oil immediately.
   
2. Decompression valve opened (to allow the engine to be moved) and the engine positioned with the piston slightly past top dead center. There are usually some kind of mark on the flywheel to indicate correct startposition.
   
3. Preheating started. Since I don't hear burnernoise, I assume this one have electrical preheating.
   

Shown on videoclip:

1. Check that the startvalve is moving freely.
   
2. Set regulator to slightly above idle.
   
3. Check that preheating is sufficient by taking one manual fuel injection. You hear the explosion is blowing out the decompression valve. This one is ready to start
   
4. Open startvalve on starttank.
   
5. Close decompression valve.
   
6. Open startvalve for about 0.5 sec. and engine is running
   

You then need to prepare for the next start by refilling the starttank. This is best done when the engine is running with some load but can also be done on idle. The startvalve is opened slightly, leaking some of the expolsion power out of the cylinder and filling the starttank. I believe 12-15 bar is normal startpressure and as you understand, it is not compressed air, it is exhaust In this videoclip the valve on the starttank is closed when the engine have started and this is probably because there are a compressor supplying the starttank in this installation (museum).

[Tk]

Hi SveinHa

Thank you for THIS answer. Now I see things clearer about semi diesels. So, due to their lower compression they do not generate enough heat to start. It is probadly the same reason (lower compression) why semi diesel sounds "smoother".

 

Interesting, so my parents engine was not a semi diesel but a full diesel, although it was build in 1936. We had to do the same things except the preheating.

 

So, is there a different name for low revolution "full" diesels in english or in Norwegian?

 

Regards

 

Tobias

[SveinHa]

I guess they are called just "low speed diesel". My favourite is a 3-cylinder Callesen. Haven't found any of these on Youtube but I have a soundfile here.

 

Here is a 4-cylinder Kelvin:

[Tk]

You are right, the Callesen has a real nice sound. I am a bit jealous about the scandinavian people. You take care about these old marine engines. In Germany we had also some manufactures, but nobody really cares about them, even no books or soundfiles, with only a handful exceptions.....I want to move to scandinavia..... Has somebody a job for me?

 

Regards

 

Tobias

[SveinHa]

In Germany we had also some manufactures

We also had some manufacturers, about 180 Not all of these made semidiesels and not all manufacturers were alive at the same time and most of these engines are totally lost. Luckily, there are some very nice and well maintained engines still in regular use by enthusiasts Redigert 11.Januar.2008 av SveinHa (see edit history)

[Tk]

Lucky you!

 

By the way. Look at "youtube" for: "Kieler Werke 1931" and "Geluid Deutz 428"

 

I do not know how to copy the links but there you can also hear some really nice German Diesel.

 

Have a nice weekend.

 

Regards

 

Tobias

[SveinHa]

To insert YouTube you click "Flere BBkoder" and select "Sett inn: YouTube". You then paste the youtubecode only (about 10 apparetly random characters).

 

Here is a video of a Wichmann 40 hp (or 40 Rubb as it is most commonly called since the factory was located on Rubbestadneset). This is not a perfect start at all since the regulator was way out of proper condition and before this video there was about 6-7 unsuccessful starts. The engine is running out a bit and to calm it down a damper on the air inlet is closed for a short time. Far from all semidiesels have this damper.

 

When it finally started, it was a bit awkward to get out of the harbor...

Redigert 11.Januar.2008 av SveinHa (see edit history)

[SveinHa]

Kieler Werke 1931

 

Geluid Deutz 428

 

I believe this is the same Deutz:

[SveinHa]

A more complete start sequence for the same 40 Rubb.

This 4 minute clip shows all operations involved with starting and total time is 10 minutes or a bit more when including refilling of the starttank (this clip is only showing a couple of seconds of filling).

[SveinHa]

BTW: The Kieler Werke, Deutz, Kelvin and Callesen are all 4-stroke and I believe they also all are fulldiesel. I'm not sure if all but at least most of the semidiesels are two-stroke.

[SveinHa]

Here is a videoclip of Kåre Haldorsen (one of the men behind the Wichmann Motorfabrikk, at this time in March 2002 about 80 years old) starting a 40 hp in "Gamle Smiå" (now used as Wichmann museum).

Redigert 19.Januar.2008 av SveinHa (see edit history)

[SveinHa]

To change the direction of revolution you have to stop the fuel injection by holding down the injection lever. When the engine have very low rpm and the piston is close to top dead center, you give a manual injection ant the engine runs in the opposite direction:

These semidiesels run fine in both directions but some of them have a clutch and/or propeller that will be damaged or lost (propeller) if run in the wrong direction.

[microship]

Hi, some additional information.

I am a member of "Gokstad Kystlag" in Sandefjord, Norway, a organisation/club for people interested in boating and the history of boating as well as the "sea culture". Among other activities and projects we have a museum of working engines and some pretty knowledgeable people. Also, some members have boats with semi-diesels installed :-).

I suggest you go to http://www.gokstadkystlag.no/ and press the button "Verkstedlaget". Only norwegian, sorry. You're welcome to visit also in person, we have the Oslo Torp airport 15 minutes away (Ryanair is cheap). Try contacting Per Angell-Hansen, phone +47 : 33 47 32 60, email pe-ange@online.no for more information on the engines

Redigert 24.Februar.2008 av eslettha (see edit history)

[Fiks]

Hi everyone

 

With buying the Sabb GA I "infected" my friends (two of them are boatbuilders). They will help my to build my own ship.

 

 

For a second project (in three or four years) we would like to have a low revolution semi-diesel. Therefore we need any information about this engines.

 

Are this engines still available? What about spares? Does somebody know where we can buy such an engine (cheap )

 

What is the translation for this kind of engine in Norwegian?

 

 

Thank you in advance for help

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

 

Try this link to finn.no: Sabb 5-9 HP for sale

Regards

Fiks