English: Sabb GG into GAG

[Tk]

Hello again Everyone

 

My last visit was in 2006 referring a FM Type L2, unfortunately I was not able to buy it.

 

Now I am after a Sabb Type GG. This motor was in a former life boat, it runs and I hope I will buy it next week. Details later.

 

My question is if it is possible to switch a Sabb GG into a Sabb GAG? If so, does only the original gearbox fit or is it SAE standard.

 

What about Spare Parts, is everything still available?

 

 

Anythink else I should know or I should look for or check before I buy it.

 

 

What kind and size of boat is recommended for this type of motor?

 

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

[Walter_S]

...switch a Sabb GG into a Sabb GAG?

...or is it SAE standard.

...What about Spare Parts

Hello, Tobias - long time no see! ;o)

 

I see that you are now after the "real thing" - a Sabb G-model - Congratulations! The G-model is probably the most successful 1-sylinder marine diesel-engine, ever buildt (it is in my opinion, anyway - no mather what anybody else may say...) in Norway.

 

But I do not understand your question.

A Sabb GG is a single cylinder, 10hp diesel engine with a "normal" gearbox (forward - neutral - astern) and a fixed 3-blade propeller attached.

A Sabb G is the same engine, but with a "clutch" + a 2-blade controllable (variable) pitch-propeller attached.

- I have never heard of a GAG...may-be this is a model, specially made for lifeboats?

- I do not know what you mean by SAE standard

- Yes, spareparts for this engine are still available, but I do not know whether ther is an Sabb-agent in Germany. There are agents in Denmark, Sweden and Finland.

 

Your question of what to look for is a bit difficult to answer - I would say: Look for the same things that you would look for in any engine you want to buy...

(General condition, corrosion, lekage of any kind, free movement of all moving parts, compression of piston, cooling system, engine oil (level and quality), exhaustmanifold and -pipe, etc)

 

In my opinion (the engine produces 8-10 hp, depending on revolutions. Max revolutions = 1.800 Rpm) this engine is perfect for a 20' to 24' displacement-hull. I'v seen it mounted in wooden displacementhulls of up to 27' . It is not ment to power any fast run-about boats, but is perfect for heavy workboat-like hulls.

:o)

[Tk]

Hi Walter

Good to hear from you. Yes, I am after the real thing now!

 

The Sabb I am after is model with 12 hp/1800 rpm referring to the manual. In the Manual the type with the GAG is the one with the normal gearbox and the GA (sorry my mistake not GG but GA) is the pitch controlled. How old can this engine be?

 

It is said that the pitch controlled with the two blade propeller has a bad efficiency. Do you agree, or do you have another opinion?

My second problem with the pitch control is, that I just do not like it, because you have to control more (Gas, Pitch and Clutch). I prefer a normal gearbox, so my question is, if I can switch one model to the other.

This leads of course to the problem where to get a gearbox. My dealer asks, if the Sabb has a Standard mounting (he calls it SAE Standard)

Of course, I have to buy the motor first. It is from a life boat which was modernized, so probadly this engine never runs for a long time. The seller also told me that the engine was serviced from a swedish workshop. The engine is running. What would you say, is a good price for such an engine? The exhaust pipe is missing.

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

Redigert 8.Desember.2007 av Tk (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

O.K. so it is a GA- (12hp / 1.800Rpm) lifeboat-motor wich is a slightly different motor than the G which only gives 8-10hp at maximum 1.800Rpm. In this case (I do not know this GA-motor...) there must be a different bore than the original G-model, wich has a 90mm bore, as the max revolutions are the same (1.800Rpm).

 

To keep things straight:

1) - G is the original 8-10hp / 1.800Rpm motor with pitch control-propeller - while the GG is the same motor, but with reverseGear and fixed propeller.

2) - GA is the motor-type (12hp/1.88Rpm) and pitch control, while the additional G is for the Gearbox - ergo - GAG - Right?

3) - To make confusion even bigger, Sabb had at one time a GA-motor that produced 14Hp at 2.000Rpm

 

I have only experience with the G-motor - See: From my homepage and with the pitch control propeller-system.

 

This pitch control is ideal for fishing, because you can adjust the pitch to keep the boat steady just where you want it to be, against current and / or wind. But for normal leisure use a ordinary gearbox is probably the easiest. It takes time to get used to the pitch control, yes. Sometimes you wish you had 3 arms and hands to handle the boat...

 

So - Your question is if a GA-motor (variable pitch control) can be converted to a GA-G with normal gearbox and fixed propeller? Correct?

 

I am sure that the SABB-gearbox is interchangable with the SABB-pitch control, BUT - if you want to add a gearbox of different brand / make to it - I do not know. And I do not know this SAE-standard, if it applies to this motor...???

 

I have no idea about a reasonabel price for this (your) motor, as I do not know the motor, and its condition. In Norway a G-model with pitch controll, including the propeller and -shaft sells for approxim. 10.000,- NOK - depending on age, general condition and equipment (electric starter-engine, dynamo and electrical glowing-device).

 

 

How old it can be? - Usually Sabb has a plaque, like this...

...attached somewhere on the motor with production-year and -number.

 

 

Redigert 8.Desember.2007 av Walter_S (see edit history)

[SveinHa]

Is it possible that the GAG is an aircooled version with gear? As far as I remember, it was common in lifeboats to use a 14 hp (or maybe it was 12 hp) aircooled Sabb...

[Tk]

Thank you for the replies, I try to load two photos up.

 

Hm, Aircooled, yes this would be possibel. If so, is it good or bad?

 

Upload does not function, probadly my mistake, will sent by email, if I find you adress........................Rahhhh, please send me your email andress, Cannot find it, due to bad Norwegian. Thank you.

Redigert 9.Desember.2007 av Tk (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

...Is it possible that the GAG is an aircooled version with gear...

Yes! Of course, SveinHa is right - it must be the aircooled G-motor.

 

If it looks like this:

+

 

Then it is the aircooled GA-motor. Sabb had 2 different ones, one of 12Hp / 1.800Rpm and on of 14Hp / 2.000Rpm. The point with aircooling was that the engine of the liveboat could be started while still hanging in its davits and without having to relay on contact with the seawater-cooling-liquid, before the boat was lowered onto the water, thus being able to make a fast escape, once afloat.

 

I have no experienced with this aircooled Sabb, but I imagin that it would be very noisy to have on a pleasure-boat........?

Redigert 9.Desember.2007 av Walter_S (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

....Upload does not function, probadly my mistake......

OK Tobias, got your mail and YES, you do have an aircooled motor. But, instead of me uploading your pictures, it is better that you try this step-by-step guidance for the upload of pictures!

 

 

1) - In the "publishing-page", on top of the text-box where you write your questions / answers you will find the "Upload-button" ---> which opens this uploadpage

 

2) - Enter textbox - use button ["Bla gjennom"] for browsing / finding your picture-file in your PC's directory...

3) - when proper picture-file is klicked, push button ["Last opp!"] - wait until whole file-string appears in red writing....

 

4) - you must then manually copy this red file-string by marking it with your curser...

5) - and press Ctrl + C (or right-click mouse and choose "copy") - now this filestring is copied to your PC's memory.

 

6) - Go back to the text-editor, where you write your questions / answers and activate the image-button

7) - Insert the file-string by entering into the text-box and paste, using Ctrl + V (or right-click mouse and choose "paste") - klikk ok

 

Your picture should now be visible. Simple really, when you have done it once!

 

:o)

[Tk]

Hi Walter, hi SveinHa

Thank you for the information. Probadly it was too easy for me to find out.

 

 

 

 

Tomorrow I will drive to this guy and listen to the sound. Then I will decide, but it is ok for me if this engine is loud, because you do not need an extra horn and you cannot hear the comments of your wife.

 

Is it a problem to add a starter and a dynamo? On my pictures the fuel lift pump (extra) is missing. What is it for? If the tank is below the engine?

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

Redigert 9.Desember.2007 av Tk (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

Yes, the primary fuelpump is in case the fueltank is positioned lower than the dieselfilter on your motor.

For the starter you must first check if there are cogs on the flywheel. The dynamo is normally positioned right above the flywheel, at the starbordside (facing forward) underneath the "corner" of the big red hood on your second picture.

But a lifeboat does normally not need a dynamo, so I do not know if there are provisions for this.

Redigert 9.Desember.2007 av Walter_S (see edit history)

[Tk]

Hi everyone

With some pain in my stomach, I did it. I bought the engine togehter with two propellers and shafts for.....350€. I guess it was not a mistake because normally you pay this amount just for the propellers.

The engine was running in front of me, only for a short time because we had no lub oil for the valves. Everthing seems to function. The oil in the engine was clear The area around the clutch is a bit rosty. The engine is loud, ok but you have to admit that no exhaust outlet was mounted.

 

God, this engine is really build for enternity, I guess I have to build my boat very very solid otherwise it will be torn apart. The starting sound reminds me of a thunderstorm in the mountains, the earth was shaking.....just what I wanted

 

 

Referring to the dynamo, the engine is prepared for a starter, so I guess it is logical that also a dynamo can be mounted.

 

By the way, I have not found a plaque, where is it normally?

 

Greetings

Tobias

Redigert 10.Desember.2007 av Tk (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

Congratulations, Tobias!

 

For that price I would have bought it too! I'll give you 550€ for it, Tobias, but it has to be in Norway.

;o)

 

You will be busy getting to know your Sabb and find out how it works, what to do and how to maintain it. Its a fairly simple but solid motor. But of course, the motor beeing air-cooled adds another dimension to it. You will have to detach the different hoods to get to the critical parts of the motor.

May be the best you should do is to get a motor-manual for you to read and study. In it you will also find all the technical datas, sparparts and service-tips.

 

Concerning the dynamo:

This picture shows the mounting bracket and belt-tightening device. It also shows the position of the starter and how it enters the cogs on the fly-wheel:

 

Running:

 

This will show you the position - yours must be under the red hood.

In this picture you will also see the position of the engine-plaque that we discussed. But I have seen other positions too. It can be anywhere there is aluminium or light-metal, because the plaque is usually rivetet (genietet) in place.

 

Concerning the missing exhaust outlet (pipe), you'll have to keep that in mind when positioning the motor in your boat. Since there is no cooling-water in the exhaust-pipe, it will get very hot. Just keep that in mind, to avoid fire-hazards.

 

Again, congratulations and good luck for the future!

[Tk]

Thank you Walter

I can imagine, that you would have bought it for this price too. That is the reason why it was still not sold to another one. The transport was to expensive.

 

I already have the manual and I will send a email to SABB when I have the engine here in my garage. I am afraid the plaque is gone because when the engine was refitted in Norway some parts were replaced incluse the housing where you plaque is mounted.

I am also wondering, if a dynamo can be mounted, because there is this big housing around the flywheel. Lets see what SABB will tell me.

 

Thinking of the exhaust outlet...the manual is talking of a special rubber hose, so it cannot be that hot I guess.

 

What kind of oil do you use for your SABB. The manual is even talking about 10W40. Is this oil not too thin?

 

Ok, during the winter I will work a bit on the motor (some new gaskets, some paint, probadly a dynamo), but in Spring I have to start to build a ship around the engine, if I cannot get a used lifeboat hull. or somethin else for small money.

 

Greetings

Tobias

[SveinHa]

Thinking of the exhaust outlet...the manual is talking of a special rubber hose, so it cannot be that hot I guess.

It is quite common to use a rubber exhaust hose but then you have to add seawater to the exhaust to cool it. Without cooling there is no chance at all that a rubber hose will last more than minutes...

[Walter_S]

Ha-ha - I think that with a rubber hose you will soon find out just how hot exhaust-fumes can get...and how much smoke a burnt rubber-hose can produce!

 

The suggestion in the manual is for an exhaust-pipe (hose) with seawater-injection to cool it down.

 

Because of engine-vibrations you cannot have a welded, solid (one pice) pipe from the engine to the hull-opening for the exhaust. It would soon break. In Norway - and probably in Germany too - one can buy flexibel exhaust-pipes in stainless steel or galvanized (zink-coated) steel in dimensions from 35mmØ, 45, 50 , 55 and 60mmØ. This would be the easiest solution, at leat for some of the strech from engine to hull-opening. Stainless steel will be the best (and most expensive) as galvanized steel will soon deteriorate.

 

 

[Tk]

Ok Ok you are rigtht

The rubber hose has to be cooled with seawater. The question is, shall I take the chance with that rubber hose and the seawater (Which reduces the noise too I guess or is it better for my purposes to take a flexible Steel hose.

 

By the way, I read in one of the old manuals that the engines had this "starting cigarette". The newer ones have something like a choke. Do you jnow when they switched?

 

You do not know someone who has a suitable hull for me?

 

Greetings

Tobias

Redigert 12.Desember.2007 av Tk (see edit history)

[Walter_S]

...shall I take the chance with that rubber hose and the seawater ....or is it better for my purposes to take a flexible Steel hose...

To inject coolingwater into the hose you have to have a waterpump + the special exhaustpipe-bend with the injector-nozzel. And your motor does not have the waterpump.

The SABB waterpump goes onto the blind-flange on the pump-case (the area between the cluch and the motor itself) on top of which the crank-starter is positioned. You can see the waterpump blind-flange, low down, where the last bit of the loose diesel-hose is hanging down.

[Walter_S]

......By the way, I read in one of the old manuals that the engines had this "starting cigarette". The newer ones have something like a choke. Do you know when they switched....

No. There was no distinct "switch" as you calle it.

The starter-cigarette-holder has always been standard equipment, while electrical glowplug (which goes into the same hole, instead of the cigarette-holder) was extras you had to pay for. But beiing a lifeboat-engine your Sabb probable has the electric glowplug installed?

 

Edited:

Come to think of it now - it probable has NOT, since there is no electrical starter as well, and the glow-plug actuating device was connected to the ignition-key, one step before ignition. But adding such a glow-plug is actually fairly easy. All you need is the right glow-plug and a decent size electric cable (12V +) attached to it, connect it to a switch and off you go! :o)

Redigert 12.Desember.2007 av Walter_S (see edit history)

[Tk]

So I would be easier for me to work with the steel hose for the outlet, but "possible" to use the rubber hose togehter with a water pump.

 

In the means of the glowplug you could be right, although I do not see a blind plug for it on my photos. In the manual a glow plug or something else is not mentioned at all.

 

The only write:

 

In cold weather:

Pull the excess fuel knob at fill cold starting oil cup.

 

Thats it. So probadly I will not need it except I want to start at minus degrees. I will check it after all when I have the motor at my place.

 

I was looking for gaskets and so on in the net. Could it be, that the parts are very expensive?

 

Greetings

 

Tobias

[Walter_S]

.....The only write: In cold weather: Pull the excess fuel knob at fill cold starting oil cup......

 

O.K. Tobias - I see that I have to stop giving you advise and make suggestions of how to go about on your Sabb GA.

 

The above sentence from your manual "..pull the excess fuel knob and fill cold starting oil cup..." gives me the impression that your GA is not the same motor as the "regular" G-model. All my knowledge of this motor is based on my own experience with the G-model (8-10hp / 1.800Rpm), and I fear that I will give you wrong advice, and tell you to do things that are not even possible on your motor....

 

As I said before, I hev never seen an aircooled Sabb-motor and do not know anything about it. I have just assumed that underneath the hoods and cowlings there is a standard G-model in disguis. And I have never seen this "excess fuel-knob" on any Sabb-diesel, so I do not know how it works.

 

The "cold starting oil-cup" is probably the same as the cup ontop of my old G-model, which feeds lubrication to the valve-rocker-assembly. In the center of this cup, ther is a small pipe-opening, leading direkt to the air-valve (suction- or inntake-valve). There it is possible to enter the nozzle of an oil-squirtingcan to this pipe and give the cylinder a few oil-squirts. In this way, the piston-rings became well lubricated resulting in much tighter and better compression and therefore a better cold-start.

 

I still wonder what motor this is, it looks like a G-model with attchments for air-cooling - BUT I still don't know how this GA can produce 12hp as compared to 8-10Hp of the G-model, with the same Rpm! May-bee it has a different (bigger) bore than the G-model (90mm), because the extra "horses" have to come from somewhere....

 

I can se, however, from your photo, that you have 2 such oil-caps on top, and it is a mystery to me where the lower-one feeds. There must be a totally differen cylinder-top as well, because the air-inntak(air-filter) is at a different place too.

 

Awaiting new and better picturen in the future...

 

 

Edited for "bad" and inconsequent engish...

Redigert 14.Desember.2007 av Walter_S (see edit history)

[Tk]

Hi Walter

 

I also thought that the GA is similar to your Model but obviously not. I have sent you the manual of the GA. There you can see the differencies. My model has a bigger bore, the question is, do I have 12 hp/1800 rpm or even 14 hp/2000 rpm (again bigger bore). So for me is the first question to find out what year this engine is from. I think I have "only" 12 hp, because on the last pages they are talking about a bigger piston and a different silencer and I have the older version of the silencer. Anyway I hope I find a plaque somewhere next week or something else I can work with.

 

The second oil cap you see is the "cold starting oil cup". The oil goes directly on top of the piston. The first one is also for the rocker arm. This fuel excess knob is somewhere near the diesel filter.

 

You will get some detailed photos from all sides as soon as possible.

 

Could you be so kind and ask in the forum, if somebody has experience with the GA. I am afraid not all members are looking for the english forum.

 

Another question is... has somebody tried biodiesel or vegetable oil on this motor. I do not know how the situation is in Norway. Here in Germany owners of older Diesel Cars take also vegetable oil for their cars. It smells like pommes frites but it is much cheaper than ordinary diesel from the filling station and it works.

 

AND

please do not stop to advise me. I am sure I can learn a lot from you and from the BEST BOAT FORUM in this galaxy!!!

 

Greetings

[SveinHa]

This fuel excess knob is somewhere near the diesel filter.

Without knowing much about Sabb, the fuel excess knob usually works like this:

Before coldstart, advance the trottle to at least half speed. This sets the fuel injection pump to max. When you push (or pull?) the fuel excess knob, you will hear a click and the injection pump is advanced to a position somewhat more than max. When the motor is started, the fuel excess knob automatically returns to normal position.

 

You have to consider for yourself if the excess fuel is needed. It may give some black smoke at startup, no big deal. If you feel that it is needed, use it, if not, don't

 

The Sabb needs some speed to start and quite some power is needed to achieve this. I once knew a man from Solund in Sogn. He was one of the tough guys, big, powerful and being a commando soldier durig WW2 and involved in several sabotage actions. He was brought up with: "When a man can't handstart his Sabb, then he ain't a man". A few years before he died, he was struggeling real bad to get his Sabb started but installing a startermotor, not a chance, then he would not be a man

[Walter_S]

...... ask in the forum, if somebody has experience with the GA.....

 

Done: Hjelp etterlyses - Luftkjølt Sabb GA 12hk-motor ENGELSK Forum

[Tk]

@ Walter

Thank you for this:

Done: Hjelp etterlyses - Luftkjølt Sabb GA 12hk-motor ENGELSK Forum

 

Now we will wait and see.

 

@SveinHa

 

Ok, so in the next twenty years I want to be a Man!

[Fiks]

Hello Tobias.

 

I have a 25 ft wooden boat with Sabb 2H. The controllable pitch system is the same as on your engine.

I belive that you will need the original Sabb reverse gear if you want to fit a fixed propeller on your engine.

If you want to fit other gearboxes I belive that you have to provide a special housing and a flexible coupling between the engine and the new gearbox. This will require specially made parts and rebuilding of the engine output shaft, and I suppose that this will be an expensive operation.

The use of the controllable pich propeller is not complicated. Normally when berting I set the trottle at fixed RPM and use the pich control to adjust the speed of the boat. The cluch is not disengaged until the boat is at the desired position.

 

Regards

"Fiks"