Bavaria 39 Cruiser, mest for pengene i stortest i Seilas

[Enzo]

Hvem er egentlig disse faste kritikerne av dette merket og hvem er disse med gammel orust båt og fransk båt som ikke får solgt pågrunn av at dette merket ?

Slik jeg ser denne tråden og mange andre som for enkelte dreier seg om merket er at det er mer generell seilebåtdiskusjon og ikke direkte hetsing av merket , les om igjen disse trådene og finn direkte ubegrunnet hetsing av merket , jeg finner det ikke... ihvertfall ikke mine innlegg selv om jeg har diskutert friskt i denne tråden i et par dager

[tuffff]

Helt enig i de siste innlegg her. Denne tråden er faktisk både morsom og lærerik. Og relativt seriøs også - det er jo reneste kinderegget.

Bavariahetsen synes ikke særlig fremtredende her synes jeg, heller en fornuftig diskusjon om vektlegging av egenskaper og prissetting av seilbåter generelt.

 

mvh tuffff

Redigert 21.November.2007 av tuffff (see edit history)

[Oteren]

Faktisk en seilbåttråd jeg har lest med interesse. Trenger ikke legge opp til usakligheter, som at noen hever seg over andre pga sitt båtvalg.

Redigert 21.November.2007 av Oteren (see edit history)

[hei]

Nå er den nok ikke unik her på baatplassen, men at den er sterk er det nok lite tvil om... Hvorfor det er slik, vel jeg leste i en reprtasjoe i et seilmagasin er for et år siden tror jeg... fra en etterisgende kjent seiler uten at de sier meg så meget... Men han seilte Bavaria(37??) og hadde sin egen teori om hvorfor kritikken motBavaria er så sterk... Den er gjengitt i en annen av Bavaria trådene her på baatplassen uten at jeg gidder å lete den opp(det er så mange tråder å lete i som fremhever dette båtmerket)..

 

Men hans teori var i grunnen at de som kritiserte Bavraie mest var de som satt med eldre overprisede Orust båter som de ikke for solgt eller er redd for å ikke får solgt for en god pris... nå kan vi vel ta med for baatplassen del at det også inkluderer noen som ikke for solgt sin franskbyggede båt også... så han tok nok feil ett sted etter mitt syn, det er ikke bare Orust eiere som kommer med kritikken.

 

Kritikken er grei den, selv om den nok virker en smule panisk og lite seriøs, men de står de fritt til å fremsette den selvsagt, men jeg lurer litt på hva motivet er, hvorfor de er kommer med slik kritikk, hva vil de oppnå med den osv. Skjønner at de vil heve seg selv over oss som seiler Bavaria, men det må da ligge noe mere bak ønsket om å kritisere

 

Sydvesten

Jeg har ikke økonomiske motiv for å diskutere Bavaria. (svensk båt, eller båt som skal selges)

Om jeg som tidligere eier av Bavaria la ut listen over feil, svakheter som utviklet med Bavaria ville det av den lille Bavaria klikken her på forumet blitt blitt fremstill som løgn og bedrageri. Derfor gjør jeg ikke det. Og selvfølgelig av hensyn til Bavariaeiere.

 

 

Har feil på min nye båt også jeg, disse er forbannet irriterende. Men, det er ikke feil av den karakter som jeg hadde på Bavarian.

 

Ellers må jeg si til alle dere Bavariafanatikere på forumet, er det noen som klarer å dra Bavaria sitt rykte og status ned så er det jo nettopp dere.....

Redigert 21.November.2007 av hei (see edit history)

[Sydvesten]

Men eiere av Bavaria er minst like ivrige som andre her i å holde denne diskusjonen i gang. Rett og slett fordi det er moro å diskutere båt.

Her vi helt enig, en god diskusjon om både Bavaria og andre merker trenger vi... denne tråden er vel en de bedre i denne sammenhengen siden sleivsparkene har vært rimelig få. Med sleivspark så mener jeg typen ren "drittslenging" og usaklige personangrep o.l.

 

Så lenge vi er uenig om sak så er det helt greit, det er vel derfor vi diskuterer, og så lenge man ikke går på person så er bra.... Som trådtsrater så var jeg jo klar over at en tråd med denne tittelen vill få i gang en debatt, og jeg synes så langt den har vært konstruktiv og god.... lærerik har den også vært for min del..

[hos]

Koser meg med siste Seilas hvor testen av 10 stk 40 fotere fra under en mill til drøye 3 mill testes... Deilig å se at et europeisk testpanlel av skikkelige seilere har testet båtene og som ventet så kom Bavaria 39 Cruiser meget godt ut... både på seilegenskaper selv med rullemast,

 

Morsom tråd/diskusjon dette her Jeg brukte sikkert over 15 minutter på en rask scanning etter lunsj i går, og nå hadde det nok vært behov for enda mer hvis jeg skulle fått med meg alt, men det har jeg ikke tid til .... Med fare for å gjenta noe som allerede kan være nevnt, tenkte jeg likevel å komme med en opplysende (?) kommentar.

 

Jeg har lest raskt gjennom "fellesomtalen" i Seilas-testen og også fått med meg den spesifikke omtalen av bl.a. Bavaria 39 (og diverse lekre Orust-båter!). Av testen fremkommer det, som Sydvesten så riktig gjengir, at Bavaria 39 har relativt gode seilegenskaper, og at den overraskende nok ikke ble fraseilt av B 40 Vision. Under Båter i Sjøen (ved Sandvika i september i år) snakket jeg med Lunde Båt-representanten som satt i Bavaria 39 Cruiser, og jeg spurte han bl.a. om testen av 40-foterne som var så vidt omtalt på Seilas sine nettsider. Han fortalte meg da at det var messebåten som hadde vært med i testen, og at han var med å seile båten under testen. Jeg spurte han også om kjøltype på denne båten, og jeg er veldig sikker på at han fortalte at akkurat denne båten var utstyrt med blykjøl. Bavariaen har sikkert gode seilegenskaper med jernkjøl også, men det at denne båten hadde blykjøl var sikkert medvirkende til at den var minst like rask som 40 Vision i denne testen. Fra testen i Seilas har jeg ikke sett dette (dvs blykjølen) kommentert, men etter min mening er det en viktig faktaopplysning som burde ha framkommet i testen.

[baatsman]

Hos

 

Skal du begynne å lære seilbåtfolket å lese båt-tester Det er klart det har mye å si på kryss-egenskapene.

 

Og du hos, tenker du mer seilbåt eller. Ellers er jo Nidelven din snerten da. Den tar faktisk Bav vår på slør også.

[Servicemannen]

First 40.7 til venstre, Bavaria 39 til høyre

 

 

 

Sammenlikne F40.7 som er en regattabåt og campingvogn er litt rart. Oceanis er betre turbåt en Match!

Oceanis 393 er utgått model, men i testen synest jeg Oceanis 40, helt nytt konsept, være et gott alternativ til den gjennomsnittig innenskjerturseiler. Den har best kvalitet i forhold til pris.

[Seiljåtten]

Campingvogn=Båt med mye plass og dårlige seilegenskaper.

 

Første gang jeg hørte det var under "båter i sjøen" i sandvika 2002. Jeg og madamen var ombord i en hanse 371 som var utstillt. Jeg nevnte for eieren (som da jobbet for nelson marine) at vi nettopp hadde vært ombord i sun oddysey 37 som vi likte godt. Han omtalte da den og mange andre båter som "campingvogn". Mannens negative kommentarer var langt på vei årsaken til at vi droppet Hanse den gangen.

 

Han var jeg også tydeligvis borte i, rygget nærmest baklengs ut av båten igjen. Dette var i 2003, og det er lite hyggelig med selgere som bruker tiden sin på å snakke dritt om konkurrentene. Der sluttet min kjennskap til Hanse, som forøvrig er flotte båter. Hadde han isteden prøvd å selge egne båter, hadde praten blitt lenger....

 

 

PS. Om det var slik at Bavaria-eiere opplevde dette som en ren og uinteressant mobbetråd, så hadde denne ebbet ut på side 1. Men eiere av Bavaria er minst like ivrige som andre her i å holde denne diskusjonen i gang. Rett og slett fordi det er moro å diskutere båt.

 

Jeg merker at jeg blir mindre og mindre interessert etterhvert som sakligheten blir bedre og bedre i bavariatrådene. Usakeligheter avkrefter jeg gjerne, men smak og behag kan jeg ikke gjøre noe med. Heldigvis har vi forskjellige båter, det gjør det mer interessant å ferdes på sjøen. Selv er jeg knall fornøyd med båten min i likhet med Sydvesten, og det er det nok mange eiere av andre båtmerker som også er.

[HaHa]

Selv er jeg knall fornøyd med båten min i likhet med Sydvesten, og det er det nok mange eiere av andre båtmerker som også er.

 

Ikke denne karen, nei :

This is the story about how I came about buying a Hallberg Rassy. (pdf)

Lenke som ikke krever registrering

 

Kanskje OT, siden det ikke er Bayersk kvalitet det er snakk om...

 

Just to summarize. The electronics in general did not work. The fresh water

pump got busted. The fridge. The tankmeters. Delamination. The mainsheet.

All small and big details that come apart. The heater. Details that gets rusty.

Yes, and the steps on the ladder into the saloon fell off. The knobs to all

lockers get stuck, so you can't get it opened. The keel bolts and the leakage.

A boom that takes a ride. What else is there? Oh come on.... It is the toilet

of course.

 

(fra sailinganarchy)

Redigert 21.November.2007 av HaHa (see edit history)

[Enzo]

Fikk ikke lastet den den .pdf`n

kom bare til en jalla reklameside ??

 

***********edit***********

Nå kom den opp

Redigert 21.November.2007 av Enzo (see edit history)

[HaHa]

Jeg har funnet en alternativ plassering. Prøv igjen.

[ulysses]

Redigert: Ha ha var kjappere enn meg

Redigert 21.November.2007 av ulysses (see edit history)

[Enzo]

Jeg kliner til og gjengir den her , denne er jo offentlig så der skulle vel ikke være noe problem at jeg cut/paster den inn her gdæm for en historie

 

This is the story about how I came about buying a Hallberg Rassy.

My name is Carl Martin, extra, extra large. When I buy something it always

used to be the biggest version. More is more. It's in my blood. I do not

know where it comes from, since I am Norwegian and not American. It's is a

pretty stupid habit and in terms of sailing yachts I was cured in 2004 having

owned a Hanse 411 for two seasons.

I am very much in love with my wife, Grete, and have been for the last 8

years. In our early years we had a sailboat and enjoyed the relaxing life

onboard in the "hot Norwegian summers". Grete loves sailing, but when

aboard, she gets seasick very easily. I get "seasick" when I am not aboard.

When we built the new house we sold the sailboat as part of the financing.

So I stayed ashore for a year or two and sat around in my fine new house

looking out on the sea. To overcome the worst sickness I bought a

daycruiser. The engine was astronomic. It's in my blood, remember. After

two years of "day cruising" in 50 knots I disposed of this mistake and

decided to buy a real boat, with mast and keel and sail, etc.

I am pretty stupid. I thought that buying a large yacht would help Grete not

to get that green look on her beautiful face when entering waves above 1

meter. How ever a large yacht have certain financial aspects to it as well. It

is shitty expensive. Good then to know that there still are boat builders that

offer good value for the un-experienced boatbuyers money. Such a boat

builder is Hanse Yachts in the former East Germany, Greifswald, The Quality

People of Yachting! I really fell for the layout with two chairs at the chart

table and the totally useless and narrow and uncomfortable sofa on the

opposite. (I never sat there.) Not to speak of what this boat is all about; the

gigantic hotel room out in front with a make-up table, lots of lockers and the

biggest double berth in the marina. "A fully equipped blue ocean 41 footer"

for 120 000 Euros!! Grete will love this and the stupid Carl Martin signed up

for delivery in April 2003.

The specification was very quickly done, since the range of options was

somewhat limited and many of the requests would be fixed later by The

Quality People of Yachting. Surprisingly, all the fixing turned out to be

something for me to fix when the boat was delivered to me. Still I managed

to order navigation and electronic devices form the top range, stretching the

shipyard electrician beyond his limits of competence. (He got the

navigational lights working, I have to give him that.)

Commissioning was due to take part in late April. (You do not get a fixed

date like with Hallberg-Rassy, and you will soon understand why.) I would

not recommend anybody to visit the yard as many do with HR. Firstly, they

do not welcome their customers when they show up to pick up their boat, so

why should they even bother when you come and interrupt them in the

middle of the building process. Secondly, it is simply better not to know how

the boats are built and just try to feel lucky each time you successfully go to

port after a Hanse sailing session. I took a week of from work to go down

together with some good friends.

Excuse my language and with all due respect to people from this area, but to

me Greifswald is in the middle of f... nowhere.

You can go there by a set of combined ferries, local trains and busses. It will

take you 24 hours of travelling (No, it is still East Germany, not the Far East.)

We took Lufthansa to Berlin and hired a Mercedes. The drive was 6 hours.

On our way we stopped on a numerous places to shop all we needed onboard

for the trip, equipment food, etc. Every time we ended up with a trolley filled

with carefully selected stuff and got the harsh sentence from the cashier

when we presented all the credit cards in the world. "Hast du Geld ?" In fact

I had to leave my friends as deposit in a restaurant, trying to find a cash

machine and get "Geld" to pay for the food.

At last we arrived in Greifswald. At first we could not find the yard. There

were no signs and no proud harbour with brand new yachts lining up for

their new owners. After some telephone calls we managed to get in contact

with our contact at Hanse; The Quality Person, Ronny. He told us that we

should aim for the place with a crane. Boats - Crane; get it ?! How stupid we

were. A crane! Of course! Another 30 minutes of crane searching and we

found it. We entered through the back door. Or that was at least what it felt

like. Later we found out that there are really only backdoors at the yard. No

reception needed with the Quality People of Yachting.

And there she was. My new ship. She looked old all ready and she was all

dirty because she had been left out in the winter with no covers for 4

months. Ronny approached us. He said it had been a small incident with

leakage. In fact the boat had not been launched and rigged, tested and

finished two weeks ago as stated by the dealer in Norway. The sea birth

happened on Friday and now it was Monday. And the boat was close to sink

in the "Elbe" due to a leakage in the Volvo sail drive.

The boat was a mess. The floor was ripped out. Cables were sticking out

here and there. It was not a boat; it was a war zone. A lot of the equipment I

had ordered was nowhere to be found. In fact the shipyard supplier claimed

not have received the order. At first he denied to speak to us because he was

to busy with clients?! The next morning he would not let us in to the shop,

because we were a bit early. We stood outside in the pouring rain while he

was inside the shop, drinking coffee and pointing on his watch and the door

sign saying that the opening hours was 0930 and it was now 0920. I was

turning raving mad.

After speaking with the Norwegian dealer and listening to some mid-range

official from the yard that told us that they would need to put the boat

ashore and replace the sail drive, we realized that this boat would not sail for

at least two weeks, and we returned back to Norway. You can just imagine,

all that money, all expectations and joy, my travelling companions taking out

vacation to embark a brand new 41 footer on her first homeward journey

from a distant shore. DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!

Nothing on the globe can probably make up for this. And truly, the Quality

People of Yachting did not try to do anything at all. They did not even regret

their lies about having rigged the boat and that everything was ready. It was

all due to a "misunderstanding." In all my experience after years working

with clients I was really astonished to the extent of client harassment they

could perform. This was the job of experts.

Three weeks later the boat arrived in Norway at my homeport, sailed up by a

crew from the yard. The dealer in Norway really wanted to set the things

straight and hand over the yacht in a proper manor. I got a one-hour

instruction on the yachts different equipment, operation and maintenance.

Yes, one whole hour. Then, stupid me, I signed the commissioning papers,

and the dealer was off. There I was in the all brand (still looking old) new

Hanse 411, carefully built by The Quality People of Yachting. And the

adventure was about to begin....

The main principle of a boat: The water shall remain on the outside of the

hull. Going all the way back to when hairy cave people with a very tiny brains

carved out trees for their small canoes or hunting vessels, they kept in mind

this one very simple principle. Keep the water outside the hull! Simple or

not, this is a missing link when going into the modern the Hanse shipyard

and The Quality People of Yachting. Because in my new yacht the water

repeatedly tended to gather around the keel bolts. As in most modernvalue-

for-money-built-yachts, the hull is flat in the bottom, and the keel is

mounted directly on this flat hull with bolts. There are of course no bilge

pumps to drain this water out; it just floats around making your floor get wet

from underneath.

I complained to the dealer. He came up with all sorts of explanations

ranging from remains of the old leakage from the sail drive to a small

problem with the fresh water pump. I said; the water is salt, - it appears

around the keel bolts, and there are no other places it can come from than

the keel bolts. Consequently, the keel bolts are leaking.

The hairy and less sophisticated cave man would have figured it out in about

two minutes. Hanse, The Quality People of Yachting used 15 months. This

year she was put ashore, the floor was removed once again, (they have fitted

the floor hatches on the side of the bolts instead of straight above. You can

see the bolts but you can't reach to them) and the nine bolts were all

tightened. Three of them were so loose; you could really screw them around

with your bare hands. On the rest we used tools and all of them was turned

around 2 - 3 times! It felt good to do some groundwork construction in

assembling the yacht, such as having a keel fitted firmly and tight to the hull.

When launched back into the sea, magic happened. The leakage stopped.

The cave man was right all along.

The main principle of the boom and the mast: They should be assembled

and keep the mainsail in place. And they should stay that way when sailing.

On my way on the trip to the west coast I got into some increasing wind

conditions. I wanted to reef and let the wind out of the mainsail. I was ready

to lower the main when suddenly the main boom just went flying by it self.

The waves came on heavy and I was alone. The mainsail was completely out

of control, only supported by the kick that held the boom. After a while I got

the sail down and secured and motored for sheltered waters to assess the

situation. I found that the bolt that locks the boom and mast together is

shackled on the main sail right in the corner. Consequently, the constant

movement of the boom will unscrew the bolt and all of a sudden you will

have a 50 sqm flying mainsail. The Quality People claimed that this had

nothing to do with the boat, because the rig was delivered by Sparcraft. This

is a Quality point of view often used by the yard and very handy.

And that is probably why the fridge just stopped cooling and needed fixing

twice. It of course happens when the box is filled and you are about to leave

for your longing vacation, and nobody is around to help you. Did I mention

the time that the anchor roller at the bow unscrewed it self and fell off?

And that is why the autopilot disassembled it self because they use to weak

bolts in the mounting, and you need to take down the sail and climb into

unreachable places with a headlight and screw drives while in rough sea.

The Quality People do not take any responsibility for equipment and parts

that they supply with the boats. Because it is not made by Hanse. It could

happen to any boat. Get it?

So when the wall between the saloon and the front cabin delaminates and no

longer seem to be assembled with the hull, that is something that Hanse

deals with. But then again they tried avoiding the repair cost claiming that

this would only occur if the boat is run and hits mother earth. I can still hear

the excited voice of the Quality Hanse After Sales Service Man. "Did you

accidentally run the yacht ashore, Carl Martin? We suspect it to be so.

You'd better call your insurance company to pay for this."

I did. After having inspected the damage the conclusion was: No signs of

any outer forces or impacts to explain damage. Most likely to have

delaminated because of poor assembly and the workload from the rig. Still

they took 6 weeks of sailing season away. Criminals!

Not to speak of the electrical equipment. I had a double Simrad CA 44,

Radar, Echo sounder, Autopilot. Fingers crossed, it did not happen once that

all systems ran with out any failure. But that is just small potatoes. They

attached the plus pole on the autopilot to the grounding system. The

batteries just got eaten up. The anode on the propeller vanished like ice

cream on a hot summer day, and the marina electricity bill was interesting

reading.

It just went on and on for two years. As soon as something was fixed,

something else broke. The water pump was changed three times. The meter

for water and fuel stopped working and the entire control panel card was

changed. Just about every detail of the boat came apart. After a while I got

used to picking up loose objects from the deck. In the beginning I wondered

where they came from. After a while I did not care. I collected them in a

plastic bag marked "spare parts".

Once this habit off self-disassembling did hurt me. I was approaching

Lindesnaes in a strong westerly breeze 10 m/s. I needed to jib the main sail

and engaged the autopilot. I went around the steering wheel and took

position with the mainsheet. I altered the course and started the jib

procedure. Then the cleat on the mainsheet....(Yes you guessed it) fell apart.

I held the ropes in my hands (stupid me) and burnt my fingers very badly.

The rope just went right through the gloves, removed my skin and most of

the flesh. Sailing a Hanse can be a Quality hurting experience. With blood

dripping fingers I managed to tie the main sheet around some winches and

get it under control.

At this moment I started to hate this boat. Two summers destroyed, my wife

started to dislike life at sea, with all the problems, and she disliked the

skipper going constantly around with a worried or angry look on his face.

And when the first cold night came along and I just did not get the heating

system to work, she disembarked and took a flight back home.

Just to summarize. The electronics in general did not work. The fresh water

pump got busted. The fridge. The tankmeters. Delamination. The mainsheet.

All small and big details that come apart. The heater. Details that gets rusty.

Yes, and the steps on the ladder into the saloon fell off. The knobs to all

lockers get stuck, so you can't get it opened. The keel bolts and the leakage.

A boom that takes a ride. What else is there? Oh come on.... It is the toilet

of course.

A Quality boat of course does have a Quality toilet challenge attached. It

always starts the same way. Someone go a bit to heavy on the toilet paper

and it gets stuck in the hose. Somewhere. I could not figure out how the

system operated. The one-hour instruction did not contain any toilet

instructions and there were no drawings. There were three hoses going in on

the same valve.

I called my Quality Hanse dealer, Rune, on my mobile and asked how this

system worked. He was out sailing in his new Hanse 411. He said that he

really did not know, because he had a different system. He had an el. toilet.

"How nice." "He has got an el. toilet." He explained how the el. toilet took

care of such problems because it mushes the stuff before sending it into the

hoses and valves. That was really helpful and such a nice thing to hear at

this moment.

Then he gave me a very friendly piece of advice: "Take a water hose from

ashore and put it firmly into the holding tank outlet on deck and set the

system under water pressure. You will then be able to flush out the system."

I didn't think. I just did it. After two minutes of filling I heard a grin from the

holding tank. I removed the water hose.

In general I consider my self as a pleasant guy. I like good food and wine. I

love homemade desserts. I do enjoy good cognacs and occasionally I even

smoke a cigar. What I do not enjoy is to have all I have drunk and eaten

served twice and the second time in a digested format.

The top layer off the content in the holding tank just splashed all over me.

Just imagine the proud yacht owner standing with a running water hose in

one hand completely covered with what ever is inside a holding tank. Shit.

At that moment I took the decision. This boat and my self need to go

separate ways.

Down under the holding tank was ready to explode. The pressure deformed

it and the membrane on the toilet bilge pump looked like a balloon. It was

time to call for the local plumber. He arrived the day after. He looked at the

system and all different hoses. Then he went very silent. I stood there

waiting. I knew some great stuff would come out from his mouth.

He said: "It looks like it has been designed by an engineer!"

I said: "No, it has been designed by the Quality People of Yachting."

Then he started to disconnect all the hoses. Man, what kind of language

these plumbers have when in operation! I just regret that I did not record the

episode. It is the juiciest language I have ever heard. Anyway the tank was

taken out and sunk on 550 meters in Kvinheradsfjorden. All hoses blocked

and the toilet was then at free exhaust.

On my lonesome journey back from the west I was kind of relaxed. I knew

the boat could not be trusted, so I always took good security measures. She

tried to trick me a couple of times but I did not let her disturb me.

"I am getting rid of you, bitch!" I said, and banged her into a rock when

mooring. "You are not my kind of boat." She did not answer back. "I am

replacing you with someone else, you untrusting slut you are!" But if you are

the untrusting and cheep slut, who is on the other end of the line?

Then she passed. A Hallberg Rassy 36. On board were a man and a woman

and girl and a small boy. And you could see the happiness and pride on their

faces. They were indeed a happy family.

"Look!" I said. "That's a real boat". "That is what a real lady looks like." I

could feel the evil revenge coming out of me as I spoke to the old bitch about

my new love. "Look how she takes care of her crew in the nice and sheltered

cockpit. Look at the mainsheet that can be easily controlled by the

helmsman. Look how she is older than you, but far more fit and sails with

style. Don't you feel old, ugly and useless? You should, because you are!"

I was probably more than ordinary crazy at the moment, talking to my boat

as a living person. But after having owned this boat I sincerely believe that

boats have a sole and that you develop a human like relationship with them.

So you'd better be careful about choosing.

But now I was in love again. A call to the HR dealer in Norway told me that

36 had become 37 and I had to wait until November 2005 to have a new

boat. By this time I had really fallen for the concept of HR 37, and I said I am

prepared to wait. I just have to endure another season with this unfaithful

old bitch.

Then all of a sudden a number was free early in 2005. I accepted within an

hour. HR claims that I probably am one of very few customers that buy a HR

on mail order terms. Who cares? What is there to think about? Everybody

knows that HR 37 is the most beautiful boat ever built. I started to sell my

Hanse 411, but first I needed to fix 12 problems with the dealer. When

working with that task every day it took only 5 weeks. My solicitor was right

around the corner all the time.

On Tuesday next week the new owners will take her over.

I promise that the old bitch is in better shape than ever, everything is fixed.

She is probably the best Hanse 411 because I have assembled her my self

over that last two years. And I will use a full day explaining them about her

and hopefully they will have a happy ship. I wish them the best of luck.

And from my living room window I look to the east, just 60 NM down the

coastline is Orust where my new love is being built. I will tell Grete that the

old bitch is sent a way to a shipyard for fixing.

She will say:" What else is new?"

And in the spring I will pretend to go and get the unfaithful one back.

And when I return in the new boat she will know how much I love her and

that we only live once. And that is why everybody at one time in life should

feel real love and get to own a Hallberg-Rassy.

With love to Grete.

Kind regards

Carl Martin

[bjorngb]

Forøvrig så kom ikke Oceanis 40 særlig godt ut heller med tanke på seilegenskaper.... rett og slett for lett kjøl

 

De som overrasket positivt var RM1200, Oceanis 40

Men resten av vogna er ok? Er det slik å forstå?? Jeg har ikke leset her på noen dager - så det er litt å lese opp på ser jeg

[HaHa]

Siden tråden først har blitt penset vekk fra de Bayerske alper, la oss fortsette med fransk kvalitet.

Fra sailinganarchy.

Amerikanere får sagt ting i klartekst...

 

Here's the background:

A certain 39ft Bendytoy (only 4 years old and never sailed hard at all - despite the marketing hype it's more of a Marina fornicatorium than an offshore cruiser) was being prepped for a trans-oceanic sail of 2,600 miles each way. I personally went over every piece of deck hardware and the rig to check that it was up for the job of going offshore (note the factory literature shows an ISO certification that the boat is built to handle certain offshore conditions with x-number of bodies aboard - absolute rubbish - Also note that this boat was fitted out in their USA factory)

 

(... 13 punkter med oppgraderinger av underdimensjonert rigg- og dekksutstyr ...)

 

On arrival after 2,600 miles of predominantly downwind sailing in under 20knots (except for a few days beating & reaching into 35 to 40 knots) the following was noted:

 

1. The babystay chainplate was distorting the foredeck- gel coat had spider web cracks for quite a few feet around it. There did not appear to be a stringer for load transfer under the deck that was man enough for the job. The deck was flexing.

2. After 5 or six days, noticed that the aft cabin berths had come loose from the hull. On inspection, and after crawling in the lazarette, it was noticed that the fibreglass support around the rudder stock was coming away from the hull and the bulkhead that the aft cabin bunks were attached to was also coming away. It was concluded that the hull is so soft and inadequately supported with stringers and bulkheads for its displacement and rig loads, that it twists and torques.

3. A leak developed in the coachroof somewhere and water was frequently pouring out from under the head liner and onto the Nav PC. Immediately a plastic tent had to be placed all around it. On arrival, it was found that many electrical contacts behind the distribution panel were corroding.

4. The nastiest: the head (pardon the pun, but a head gasket??) came loose and evil stuff found its way into the bilge !!

 

After the next 2,600 miles, it was noticed that the aluminum toerail was bent upwards between each bolt from the forestay back to the chainplates and you could see a space almost an 1/8th" under the toerail. This tells me that the bow flexes up and down when beating into a seaway and must be compressing the deck back to the mast on the "up-stroke" in order for the toerail to be bent upwards.

[bjorngb]

Det skulle ikke forundre meg om du "vinner" diskusjonen på utholdenhet

Det beste argumentet for å vinne en diskusjon: DET DRITER JEG I... det er ikke så mye å si imot det

[hos]

Skal du begynne å lære seilbåtfolket å lese båt-tester Det er klart det har mye å si på kryss-egenskapene.

 

Ja, jeg har nok mye å bidra med der Nei da, men akkurat opplysningen om blykjølen burde absolutt vært nevnt i testen. For øvrig nevnte han som var med å seile Bav 39 under testen, at den i flere av "seilasene" lå klart foran flesteparten av de andre turseilerne, så det er tydelig at den gjorde det bra

 

 

Og du hos, tenker du mer seilbåt eller. Ellers er jo Nidelven din snerten da. Den tar faktisk Bav vår på slør også.

 

Jeg tenkte/tenker såpass at jeg tidligere i høst bestilte et introduksjonsabonnement på Seilas som jeg leser med interesse - spesielt testene. Men Nidelven er glimrende, og jeg er godt fornøyd med den, så tiden vil vise hva som skjer.

[bjorngb]

Noen som vet hvilke andre båtblad som var med på testen? Jeg syns de engelske båtbladene er mer kritiske til alle båter enn de norske. Er norske båtblad redde for å ta i når de kritiserer? Skal lese testen når jeg får bladet. Men det blir jo interessant å se om andre blad er like intetsigende som Enzo påstår at seilas er.

Virker som de norske bladene er litt mer ute etter å godgjøre annonsørene - ikke nødvendigvis være kritiske. Mener Seilas hadde en sammenligning hvor hver av båtene hadde hver sin "Mest for pengene"/"Beste seil"/"Beste innredning"/"For den akrive seiler" - altså ingen vinner og ingen taper OG ingen annonsører som blir sure ;-)

[bjoris]

the Hanse shipyard and The Quality People of Yachting.

 

Jeg har lest dette før og det er jo knapt til å tro, litt rart at han ikke krevde kjøpet hevet, men jeg har muligens ikke lest alt, det var en lang historie... Vel, nå er det bare 5 mnd igjen til jeg skal "in the middel of nowhere" å hente båt. Måtte jo flire litt av at de tok fly til Berlin og kjørte 6 timer med bil. Det tar 7.5 timer fra Hirtshals...;). Selv om denne historien er ekstrem og det er 4 år siden så kan en lese en del svært så uheldige ting på www.myhanse.com... Se f.eks på 430... Nei, hvorfor kjøper vi egentlig båter der det finnes så mange dårlige rykter? Det må være for at det ikke er lett å finne et merke som ikke har en masse slike historier knyttet til seg..., men Hanse er vel blant verstingen i klassen er jeg redd...

 

Jeg håper alle som henter nye båter er 100% ærlige og gir oss en tilbakemelding om hvordan det var. Tror nok mange holder ting litt for seg selv i den tro at forhandleren skal være mer behjelpelig med å få ting i orden... Jeg skal iallefall legge ut en bunnærlig rapport om mine erfaringer med henting og kvalitet i håp om at andre kan dra lærdom av det. Det jeg ikke skjønner er at mange leverandører sliter med dårlig kvalitet og mye feil. Dette koster jo utrolig mye penger, det brukes jo 10 ganger mer penger på å få rettet feil som ikke er rettet før båten er levert samtidig som kunden aldri vil bli fornøyd og rykter deres blir dårlig. De fleste vil jo kreve feilene rettet/kjøpet hevet hvis det er så ille som det blir fremstilt her... Kan ikke skjønne at store verft kommer til at dette er en smart løsning. Det er jo stort sett veldig greit for verftet å få tingene i orden, bare de prøver. Nelson har innført en ny rutiner som gjør at etter kvalitetskontrollen på verftet så reiser de ned, går nøye gjennom alle båtene og så håndterer det de finner av reklamasjoner før båtene blir overlevert til eier i Tyskland eller satt på lastebil til Norge... Dette har iflg dem gitt en helt annen situasjon på kvalitet og opplevelse for ny eier... Så får vi se om det stemmer. De har også planer om en servicebil på vestlandet, det er jo gullverdt om en slipper å transportere båten for mindre feil... Vel, time will show...

Redigert 21.November.2007 av bjoris (see edit history)

[Carpediem]

Utrolig at jeg gidder å lese alt dette! Leste i dag test av Elan 410, en båt som jeg er meget begeistret for, og som jeg gjerne skulle eid om jeg hadde hatt annen økonomi og andre behov! Men nå har jeg behov for en romslig båt da jeg skal bo i den. Så da blir det bavaria. Og er imponert over hvor mye båt man får for pengene! Jeg har full forståelse for folk som ikke syntes en bavaria seiler like godt som en x-båt. (Det er jo faktisk det dere diskuterer!) Men det gjør den altså ikke. Men bavariaen seiler ikke dårlig heller! Det må alle forstå her! Og sammenligningen mellom 40.7 og bavaria 39 er rett og slett tåpelig! De er ikke i samme pris klasse (ny-båt), har ikke samme volum, har ikke samme bruksområde og dermed ikke samme seilegenskaper!

 

Har ikke vært ombord i en 40.7 selv. Men kan f.eks. Sammenligne med grand Soleil 40, x-40! (blir neste like galt) En bavaria 37 er mer romslig innvendig en disse båtene, men seiler selvsagt ikke like bra!

 

En GS 40 seiler meget bra, er trang, bra kvalitet, du har en båt ikke alle andre har men koster 2,5-3 mill!

 

Bavaria 37-39 seiler ganske bra (nok bra for mange), er romslige, "billige" (1-1,5 mill), mindre tap (%), uproblematisk kvalitet!

 

Ingen av disse påstandene gidder jeg å diskutere, for det er mine meninger, og jeg kommer ikke til å forandre dem med mindre jeg erfarer noe annet selv!

 

Når det gjelder kvaliteten på bavaria så er den god, dvs at det ikke er mer reklamasjoner på bavaria som gj.snittet. (prosent messig vell og merke) Og hvis det er noe feil så har Lunde båt, våger meg med en uttalelse nå, norge beste service apparat.

[Carpediem]

glemte og skrive at bavaria 37-39 er en båt veldig mange har, dvs. at sansynligheten for å ligge ved siden av en er ganske stor....

 

Og nå her jeg sikkert forlenget denne tråden med 5 sider. Det kom 2 båter til som skal dikuteres/sammenlignes gutter!

[roaldbj]

Jeg har ikke kastet meg inn i denne tråden tidligere.

Jeg lurer på hvilken leverandør i Norge som har bedre ettermarkedsapparat enn Lunde båt?

Signaturen min viser at jeg har Beneteau båt.

[HaHa]

Man sparer seg muligens mye bry ved å la en dyktig takstmann ta en gjennomgang av båten ved leveranse. Jeg synes i allefall at Ronald Rybbe argumenterer godt for nytten av dette.

[Sydvesten]

Må si Carl Maritin skrev meget godt... storkoste meg over denne flotte skildringen..... hvor meget som er sant skal jeg ikke ha noen mening om, men morsomt var det i allefall...